Call of Duty 4 Tournament Rules Discussion Thread

[v0lum3]

I just wanted to make a thread so we can keep from overcluttering the recruitment threads.

Discuss the settings and gametypes you guys would like to see

(I'll edit with mine later :))

[Rocket]

I will say this now though, MARTYDOM IS OFF! Anyone using it will be disqualified from the tournament.

[v0lum3]

I will say this now though, MARTYDOM IS OFF! Anyone using it will be disqualified from the tournament.

lulz, Im am haapie!

I would personally like to see air support turned off and RPG's/Grenade Launchers...

you can't really turn off RPG's and Grenade Launchers and leave air support on since you need them to deal with air support... but I personally despise RPG's and Nade Launchers :(

I would LOVE to play some Domination, it's a really great gametype with a lot of balance and fun involved.

Search And Destroy would be fine for one rotation, but I wouldn't want to play it more than once... it's just too slow paced and boring sometimes :(

A game of Team Deathmatch would round it out.

I don't think HQ is reliable enough of a gametype to put in. I know everyone loves it while leveling up... but it's very random and unlike Domination it can be virtually impossible to stop people due to the spawn system.

So I'd like to see a round of S&D, a round of Team Deathmatch, and a round of Domination.

[Blind Rage]

It should be Search and Destroy...

[Anti Hero]

I think it should be..

Team Deathmatch
Headquarters
Search and Destroy

If there is 3 matches..

[Khaos x3h]

Damn no matrydom. lol jk. I guess I have to edit my guys.

[Razor]

I think its good without martyrdom. prevents cheap grenade kills.

[DrHerbz]

I would personally like to see air support turned off and RPG's/Grenade Launchers...

you can't really turn off RPG's and Grenade Launchers and leave air support on since you need them to deal with air support... but I personally despise RPG's and Nade Launchers :(

No n00b tube?!?! I love my launcher :p

I can see why it shouldn't be used as some people see it as cheap, but don't think it should be taken out as it's damn useful, if theres more then 1/2 around the corner, its nice to have. Agree with air support though.

[Razor]

No search and destroy, that shit is gay.

[v0lum3]

No n00b tube?!?! I love my launcher :p

I can see why it shouldn't be used as some people see it as cheap, but don't think it should be taken out as it's damn useful, if theres more then 1/2 around the corner, its nice to have. Agree with air support though.

But during games like S&D it can be ridiculously overpowered... spamming shots at enemy team spawns for 2 or 3 kills when the other team can't respawn = overpowered IMO... and during games with respawns noob tubers tend to just crank off two shots, die, and go back at it... I'm not accusing you of this, but it's true... and in a situation where there are more than 2 people around a corner, at least IMO, you probably shouldn't win :)

But I'm just making suggestions, trying to see what other people think... but I do have to vehemontly disagree with Headquarters as a competitive gametype... the spawn system (capturers who are driven away always spawning closer at almost all times) makes the game very unpredictable... the real purpose of adjusting settings for a competition, at least in my mind, is to add structure to the game for the parts which are unpredictable... the spawns in HQ can determine everything and there's no way to control them...

However with the (somewhat) predictable spawn systems in domination, Team deathmatch, and S&D it becomes less about who gets a good spawn and more about which team is better...

But I would like to test HQ with team damage and no martyrdom out...

I suggest that this weekend, everyone who's interested in testing these settings out gets on around noon EST and tests these out with me... we'll just start up a private room and see how different settings and gametypes work, what do you say?

[Azeron]

The reason I suggested S & D is because it is the competitive standard for Call of Duty, both 2 and 4. Domination is allright, but is often determined by who is the first to cap the second flag. If we choose to play domination I would suggest we play it with a higher score limit than the default.

Deathmatch... kind of depends. It's not really competitive considering how you can just get the lead then camp in a good spot, plus there's nothing stopping both teams from camping and tieing at 0.

Personally I see no problem with air support. Taking down choppers is a test of teamwork IMO, and airstrikes are a good way to break stalemates or flush out campers. Martyrdom I don't really have a problem with outside of HQ, but I'll support it being turned off to make things more fun for everyone. I have no problems with Noob tubes/RPG's, considering whoever is using them gives up either their silencer and/or their Perk 1.

Is everyone agreed on turning friendly fire on?

Weren't you going to suggest playing without perks Volume? I don't really think that's a good idea, especially for snipers, but we can discuss it.

Something that's yet to be adressed is how we will pick maps and spawns, assigning spawns somehow is important because everone has their favorite side on each map.

Edit: one more thing; killcam yes or no?

Oh, and as an example here's gamebattles' settings, for consideration:



Team Deathmatch

Points to Win : Challenge Option
Round Timer : 10 Minutes
Search and Destroy

Roung Length : 3 Minutes
Bomb Timer : 45 Seconds
Number of lives: 1 Life
Plant Time : 7.5 Seconds
Defuse Time : 7.5 Seconds
Multi Bomb : Disabled
Score Limit : 4 Points
Round Switch : Every Round
Domination

Time Limit : 10 Minutes
Score Limit : Unlimited
Respawn Delay: 5 Seconds

[v0lum3]

The reason I suggested S & D is because it is the competitive standard for Call of Duty, both 2 and 4. Domination is allright, but is often determined by who is the first to cap the second flag. If we choose to play domination I would suggest we play it with a higher score limit than the default.

Deathmatch... kind of depends. It's not really competitive considering how you can just get the lead then camp in a good spot, plus there's nothing stopping both teams from camping and tieing at 0.

Personally I see no problem with air support. Taking down choppers is a test of teamwork IMO, and airstrikes are a good way to break stalemates or flush out campers. Martyrdom I don't really have a problem with outside of HQ, but I'll support it being turned off to make things more fun for everyone. I have no problems with Noob tubes/RPG's, considering whoever is using them gives up either their silencer and/or their Perk 1.

Is everyone agreed on turning friendly fire on?

Weren't you going to suggest playing without perks Volume? I don't really think that's a good idea, especially for snipers, but we can discuss it.

Something that's yet to be adressed is how we will pick maps and spawns, assigning spawns somehow is important because everone has their favorite side on each map.


I thought about playing no perks and while I would love it... I'm pretty sure that it would be too far from standard for most players.

I was thinking about the martyrdom issue and with friendly fire on, I don't see a reason to limit it... I honestly would foresee everybody being so PO'd about their teammate using it that it would almost be a non-factor.

I like air support off for a few reasons though:

no radar which encourages communiction

no airstrikes to slaughter your teammates with on accident :(

no chopper to slow the game down during important parts...

Plus god forbid someone get an airstrike during a S&D game and it's pretty much over from there :(

I realize that airsupport is a nice boost, but I kind of look at it as radar in Halo... something which is great if you're on your own, but can easily be made up for with communication and good teamwork :)

Friendly Fire on is honestly the biggest point that I want to argue, I really don't want to play without it... it's very silly :(

I realize that Team Deathmatch can encourage camping, but if it's played on the right maps you can easily negate that benefit...

And I have to disagree on Domination being impossible to break, true the team to initially take the second control point gains an initial advantage but there are on most maps several ways to break control. Now of course we wouldn't want to be playing Domination on Water Works or anything crazy :) But maps like Overgrown provide a lot of options to break a set-up.

[Azeron]

I was referring to standard settings for domination though. If we do it like gamebattles (10 min, no score limit) I see no problem with it.

You practically never play with a full party do you? Four RPGs hitting a chopper at the same time is quite a sight, trust me. ;) That's playing 6v6 though, any less and air support should definately be out.

[v0lum3]

I was referring to standard settings for domination though. If we do it like gamebattles (10 min, no score limit) I see no problem with it.

You practically never play with a full party do you? Four RPGs hitting a chopper at the same time is quite a sight, trust me. ;) That's playing 6v6 though, any less and air support should definately be out.

I like the no score limit settings... sounds like fun to me :)

And I always play with you, so I pretty much never play with a full party unless we're playing with a full party... I realize that choppers aren't devestating, they're actually pretty weak... but they do require you to focus your efforts for a few seconds... I'm just saying that I think it would flow better without them for the tournament.

[Clipse]

Just an outside opinion on the gametypes...

Team Deathmatch - Its classic, you honestly can't go wrong with having this as a round or all of the rounds.
HQ - Great for leveling up, sucks when you get the wrong spawn
S&D - Quite possibly the shittiest gametype I've played, I'm not a fan of a gametype where someone can just sit around and camp a certain spot on a map without having to actively do something waiting for a person to come plant the bomb, take them out and thats that.
Domination - A great game type granted like S&D you can camp but at least if you kill someone they can come back and completely own your ass.

Might I also add there should be no noob tubes or rockets allowed. You may also need a set list of perks that may be activated otherwise you'll have an unfair advantage for those who have 3 frags. Same might be said for weapons, some will be at a level so they can use P90's while others might only have an MP5. All depends on how fair you want to make it.

[Azeron]

Rank 49 is what, 95K experience? That should be easy enough to get in time for the tourney, even if you start playing now. And I'll be happy to play with anyone who needs some experience.

41 (P90 and 3x frags) is somewhere just under 65K, that's the minimum level I'd reccomend for everyone, the M14, dead silence and the Barret are just bonuses, but not really essential. (The P90 is horribly overrated too, it gets just as many kills in a clip as an MP5 and the latter kills faster)

[DrHerbz]

I have everything I need from level 1, m16, stopping power and my nade launcher :P

But I don't think weapons and what not should be limited, no need to take away what people have worked hard for. Only thing that I would really like to see out of the tournament is martyrdom in particular, there really is absolutely no skill required to die :p


I got a new account the other day and trying to rank up so I have a wider selection to use when the tournament comes around, I wouldn't mind playing with you Azeron if that's cool ;)

[v0lum3]

the M14, dead silence and the Barret are just bonuses,

Blasphemy :eek: The M14 = teh hotnezz... only AR I plan on using (unless everybody whores the superpowered M16 :()

Dead Silence = teh hottiehotnezz, sprinting everywhere and knowing where bitches are just because they shift their weight = Superman!

And the Barret really is overrated... M40 FTW! But the Barret is the strongest all around sniper... but if I needz to snipe I'll break out the Golden Drug just so everybody can bask in it's golden glow :)

(The P90 is horribly overrated too, it gets just as many kills in a clip as an MP5 and the latter kills faster)

Agreed... people love it for the overachieving fire rate... but the MP5 makes up for it in accuracy and RELIABILITY :)

[L3giOn]

I don't think we should restrict any weapons, perks, or airstrikes/choppers. And if you're too stupid to run away from a martyrdom grenade then you shouldn't be playing CoD4 in the first place.

Also Team Deathmatch should be the only gametype for this tournament. Strictly kills, it's the best show of skill. If the other team gets ahead of you and camps that's your own damn fault for letting them get the lead in the first place.

Team Deathmatch
No Restrictions
Set Map List each week
Play a time limit, no kill limit

[v0lum3]

I don't think we should restrict any weapons, perks, or airstrikes/choppers. And if you're too stupid to run away from a martyrdom grenade then you shouldn't be playing CoD4 in the first place.

Also Team Deathmatch should be the only gametype for this tournament. Strictly kills, it's the best show of skill. If the other team gets ahead of you and camps that's your own damn fault for letting them get the lead in the first place.

Team Deathmatch
No Restrictions
Set Map List each week
Play a time limit, no kill limit

Thanks for joining the discussion... and debating... oh, wait, those are just insults, demands, and curse words...

[Razor]

Yeah i was always wondering what the actual game type was going to be and i do agree on team deathmatch. other wise like legion said, it shows no true skill.

[L3giOn]

Thanks for joining the discussion... and debating... oh, wait, those are just insults, demands, and curse words...

I never insulted anyone or demanded anything, I just told it like it is. There's no reason to limit what can be used. If you don't like the way CoD4 was made then you shouldn't play it.

[Razor]

Yeah because, if you took everything out, perks air support, etc. then it would be so boring, thats what makes CoD4 fun is the perks and stuff.

[v0lum3]

I never insulted anyone or demanded anything, I just told it like it is.

Then what are these?

if you're too stupid to run away from a martyrdom grenade then you shouldn't be playing CoD4 in the first place.

If the other team gets ahead of you and camps that's your own damn fault .


Yeah because, if you took everything out, perks air support, etc. then it would be so boring, thats what makes CoD4 fun is the perks and stuff.

Yeah because if you took out all the other gametypes, Domination, Search and Destroy, etc., then it would be so boring, that's what makes COD4 fun is the gametypes and stuff.

This is a suggestions and discussions thread... the least you can do is attempt to back up your statements with some thoughts and points... just saying that that's the way stuff should be because that's the way the game was made is a waste of time...

Why do you think that only slayer shows skill?

Why are you so opposed to limiting perks and/or air support? Why do you think that competitively it would be better to leave them in?

Perhaps you could comment as well on some of the other topics being discussed in the thread, like friendly fire, etc.

But I do disagree that TD isn't the only game type that shows skill, I think strategic thinking and skill is just as tangible as shooting ability... I hate to use an MLG example since most people around here seem to despise them, but they do an excellent job on their competitive tournaments, they use a two objective gametypes, one slayer gametype set up, and they arguably show off the best gamers in the world at their tournament.

I also wouldn't really want to play a 3 game playoff of just slayer, it would be quite boring week after week IMO, and Slayer really doesn't require much coordination in COD4... but that's just my opinion. :)

[Rocket]

Ok, few things to clear up for everyone.

My previous statement regarding Martydom.

Martydom will be allowed. This has been discussed by the entire staff, and decided that Martydom will be allowed. There is no reason to restrict the way a game is played. If you play online, you cannot restrict what other people use, and this tournament will be the same way. All perks and weapons will be allowed.

Friendly Fire - Friendly Fire will be off. You do not play with friendly fire on during online play, therefore we will not turn it on for this tournament.

MAPS - Shipment is the only map that will be off the rotation. For a 6 v 6 tournament the map is too small. Players will spawn on top of eachother and make the match pointless.

Maps will be thrown into Random.org's randomizer and each team will play the same maps the first round. The second round will be done the same way, maps will be thrown into the generator and all will play the same maps. This will be done until the finals.

For the Finals, each team captain will pick 1 map, then the last map will be decided upon by the generator.

[L3giOn]

:D Sounds perfect! :gun_bandana::ar15::AR15firing::2guns:

[Azeron]

Also Team Deathmatch should be the only gametype for this tournament. Strictly kills, it's the best show of skill. If the other team gets ahead of you and camps that's your own damn fault for letting them get the lead in the first place.
So Counterstrike takes no skill? CoD 2 took no skill? Tribes took no skill? And that must be why all of the RS: Vegas tourneys switched to conquest as soon as the gametype was available too right?

The only games where deathmatch was ever played competitively are the fast twitch shooters like Quake and Unreal Tournament because those games actually took a high amount of individual skill. Slower games like this one are always played in an objective gamemode because it encourages team coordination and reduces camping. CoD 4 in particular barely requires any teamwork in deathmatch, nor does it require very much individual skill considering all the autoaim and the tiny field of view.

Yeah because, if you took everything out, perks air support, etc. then it would be so boring, thats what makes CoD4 fun is the perks and stuff.
But we're holding a tournament here, fun is only part of the equation. If we want to have a good tournament we need to make sure teams are able to compete as well as they can, and if that includes imposing certain restrictions then so be it. I don't think anyone supports a really large scale banning of perks and weapons or anything like that though. :)

I never insulted anyone or demanded anything, I just told it like it is. There's no reason to limit what can be used. If you don't like the way CoD4 was made then you shouldn't play it.
Right, because IW put all of those private match customization options in there so people wouldn't use them, they'd rather have you just didn't play their game. :rolleyes:

<snip>
Is this final, because I have some serious issues with your reasoning here. This is a tournament, there's nothing wrong with changing the game rules to improve competition. This is like holding a Halo tournament with Bungie's default settings, i.e. unnessesary and foolish when there's an alternative available.

By the way, if we're going to play best of three, how about teams alternate host on every game, with the team that does not have host picking spawns?

[v0lum3]

wow... no restrictions??? so what's the difference between playing the tournament and just playing online? I mean a lot of the online settings are they way they are to decrease ONLINE griefing, not for the better improvement of gameplay... matchmaking is designed to eliminate people who abuse rules and to minimize the bad/noob player's impact on ruining the game for others.

Are we going to have any rules at all?

I really really really disagree with the friendly fire rule... I didn't see one post saying it was a bad idea. The only reason it's not in standard matchmaking is to prevent team killing and glitch score exploitation (ie killing yourself in order to keep the other team from scoring)

I mean a few of the things discussed are a bit far fetched and I can live with all perks and air support... but FF turned off is really unexcusable... why would you need it off other than to reward and encourage grenade spam and martyrdom use? If we're after a true test of skill isn't it a measure of a player's skill to not kill their teammates?

I'm not looking for a ton of restrictions, just a bit of variety, I can play standard settings all day online, I was hoping for a more competitive experience with the tournament...

I also have to agree with the every map is in decision, each map in its own right has an advantage and use, but for different gametypes. A map like Water Works is terrible for linear gametypes like S&D and Domination but is a fairly fun Deathmatch map, while maps like Bog become spawn camp fests during slayer and result in a fairly challenging Domination match.

I think the site as a whole has a lot of experience with COD and could come up with a fairly good group of settings and gametypes/maps to play on without just spitting them all into Random.org or whatever.

I have a lot of experience in online tournaments and would love to offer my services in helping iron out some of these things.

And could we get a bit of word on the gametypes and play structure?

[Razor]

But volume, look at it this way, Say your shooting at the other team, and then your teammate runs across you and you shoot him and then you get minus a point or whatever it was, Then also we are going to come across, "Hey why the hell did you shoot me" and everyone is going to be fighting and it will get everyone no where. Also you would sure as hell not like it being on a killing streak and then get team killed.

IMO friendly fire off just like in real multiplayer.

[Azeron]

Having to think about where you're shooting is a bad thing? Weren't you talking about skill earlier?

It's an absolute travesty that friendly fire isn't on in matchmaking in my opinion, but I can understand the reason for it, considering IW's refusal to implement a vote to kick/admin system, but there's no reason not to have it when playing in organized teams which are supposed to be communicating and coördinating their attacks.

[Blind Rage]

Thats communication, don't run infront of someone shooting...

All I care about is we play S&D

[Clipse]

Do you really want rules? I can make the rules fair and balanced because I'm not part of the tourney. If you want rules it can be arranged. One of the reasons we pulled the martydom rule was because if all games are played in a team deathmatch setting you wouldn't have to worry about it as you shouldn't be close to your opponent unless by chance getting a knife kill or being stupid enough to run across their dead body. I'm very serious if you want outside rules I'll give them to you, very simple, and very fair for everyone.

[Clipse]

If we're after a true test of skill isn't it a measure of a player's skill to not kill their teammates?

Then why have anything other than team deathmatch, its kill or be killed; most kills wins. No other game type gives you that, everything else promotes camping.

A map like Water Works is terrible for linear gametypes like S&D and Domination but is a fairly fun Deathmatch map, while maps like Bog become spawn camp fests during slayer and result in a fairly challenging Domination match.

I think you mean Wet Works, and I disagree. Bog is a great map, you said it yourself it provides a fairly challenging domination match. It's also a good map for snipers, if you're so inclined.

I think the site as a whole has a lot of experience with COD and could come up with a fairly good group of settings and gametypes/maps to play on without just spitting them all into Random.org or whatever.

I have a lot of experience in online tournaments and would love to offer my services in helping iron out some of these things.

And could we get a bit of word on the gametypes and play structure?

Thank you but your services cannot be used at this time, you're a competitor in this competition therefore you have an advantage over others. If you want something interesting have Exane and I come up with something fun; it would be fair, balanced, and not conflict with the interest of the tournament.

[Azeron]

Then why have anything other than team deathmatch, its kill or be killed; most kills wins. No other game type gives you that, everything else promotes camping.
On the contrary, because CoD does not have weapon pickups in deathmatch there is no incentive whatsoever to move out of your spawn at all. Objective gametypes require you to move and adapt to a changing situation, meaning players will be moving around much more.

[Clipse]

On the contrary, because CoD does not have weapon pickups in deathmatch there is no incentive whatsoever to move out of your spawn at all. Objective gametypes require you to move and adapt to a changing situation, meaning players will be moving around much more.

Ok, what about my other points? God how I love when I make a few points but everyone seems to pick out what they can argue and just go with that...

[Azeron]

Ah, but you appear to be asking for a mandate I'm not willing to give. How about you make your suggestion first and then I might give you my approval. ;)

[Flea]

Ah, but you appear to be asking for a mandate I'm not willing to give. How about you make your suggestion first and then I might give you my approval. ;)

Or we could go with the lets just play the game,if you dont like it dont join system.

You dont moan about this stuff when we have played online,so why now?

It just doesnt make any sense,if its in the game its in the game,the only thing thats down to luck is if we play headquarters on shipment.

Either you want to take part or you dont,im not arsed about the rules i just want to play for fun,as thats all that matters at the end of the day.
and all this moaning about we shouldnt allow this or that just seems daft if you ask me.

Im not saying this as a site staff member im saying it as a gamer,
lets just get on with things so i can either win or lose,
as long as its fun i dont care.

[Clipse]

Ah, but you appear to be asking for a mandate I'm not willing to give. How about you make your suggestion first and then I might give you my approval. ;)

Wow man, wow. Are you blind? I've made several suggestions, asked several questions and yet you see none of it. I tell you what, give me something that fair and balanced, something that isn't biased or of your own personal opinion.

[Azeron]

I might be missing someting, but the only thing I see you asking is wether we want you to make up some rules for us, without specifying what you have in mind, correct me if I'm wrong though.

As for my suggestion, it would seem obvious to me. If we're playing best of three we can play a mix of deathmatch, S & D and domination, with the order determined by random.org or something, it seems like that would make the most people happy.
Or we could go with the lets just play the game,if you dont like it dont join system.

You dont moan about this stuff when we have played online,so why now?

I've had it with this eat shit and shut up attitude some (leading!) members of this site have. If I hear this one more time you can bet I will never attempt to contribute anything to any site activity ever again ok? The only reason I'm in this discussion is because I'd like this tourney to be the best it can be.

Oh, and me and volume both have several posts on charlieoscardelta.com adressing our issues with the game, so your point is moot.

[Clipse]

Then why have anything other than team deathmatch, its kill or be killed; most kills wins. No other game type gives you that, everything else promotes camping.



I think you mean Wet Works, and I disagree. Bog is a great map, you said it yourself it provides a fairly challenging domination match. It's also a good map for snipers, if you're so inclined.



Thank you but your services cannot be used at this time, you're a competitor in this competition therefore you have an advantage over others. If you want something interesting have Exane and I come up with something fun; it would be fair, balanced, and not conflict with the interest of the tournament.

Just an outside opinion on the gametypes...

Team Deathmatch - Its classic, you honestly can't go wrong with having this as a round or all of the rounds.
HQ - Great for leveling up, sucks when you get the wrong spawn
S&D - Quite possibly the shittiest gametype I've played, I'm not a fan of a gametype where someone can just sit around and camp a certain spot on a map without having to actively do something waiting for a person to come plant the bomb, take them out and thats that.
Domination - A great game type granted like S&D you can camp but at least if you kill someone they can come back and completely own your ass.

Might I also add there should be no noob tubes or rockets allowed. You may also need a set list of perks that may be activated otherwise you'll have an unfair advantage for those who have 3 frags. Same might be said for weapons, some will be at a level so they can use P90's while others might only have an MP5. All depends on how fair you want to make it.

Your right Azeron, I haven't commented, suggested, or asked too many things with my posts. Tell you what, I'll leave you to argue this out with your biased opinion as to what should be played. Have a great tournament that CONSOLEHEROES.COM is hosting...

[Rocket]

I might be missing someting, but the only thing I see you asking is wether we want you to make up some rules for us, without specifying what you have in mind, correct me if I'm wrong though.

As for my suggestion, it would seem obvious to me. If we're playing best of three we can play a mix of deathmatch, S & D and domination, with the order determined by random.org or something, it seems like that would make the most people happy.

I've had it with this eat shit and shut up attitude some (leading!) members of this site have. If I hear this one more time you can bet I will never attempt to contribute anything to any site activity ever again ok? The only reason I'm in this discussion is because I'd like this tourney to be the best it can be.



Oh, and me and volume both have several posts on charlieoscardelta.com adressing our issues with the game, so your point is moot.



I'm sure, since you yourself are a what, level 9 or 10 prestige, that you play plenty of COD4. Now, there are those of us, myself included, who merely play for some good old fashioned fun. I personally, have yet to play more than 4 hours give or take of the game. And I am sure that there are others on the site signing up for the tournament are in a similar boat.

When we had the Halo tournament did we change any of the rules? Did we turn off the invisibility because it gave an unfair advantage? No. Did we turn off the overshield? No. What about the BR or the Sword or the Laser or any other weapon that people called cheap? No.

Having Friendly Fire on seems to me, like a personal preference for you and only a few others. Honestly, what's the point of whether it's on or off? Could it will mean that some people who merely play for fun or will be joining a new team of people may have some difficulties with it? Surely, I know that I would have a bit of trouble with it. Will it actually make that big of a difference in how the tournament is played?

What's so wrong with straight 6 v 6 kill or be killed? Does that take away from the actual concept of who is the better team? What about the people unfamiliar with or for that matter, never even played anything other than Team Deathmatch or FFA?

I mean honestly, whether you've posted on their website your concerns is a moot point here, we are not that site, they are not holding a site tournament, we are.

[Azeron]

Having Friendly Fire on seems to me, like a personal preference for you and only a few others. Honestly, what's the point of whether it's on or off? Could it will mean that some people who merely play for fun or will be joining a new team of people may have some difficulties with it? Surely, I know that I would have a bit of trouble with it. Will it actually make that big of a difference in how the tournament is played?

What's so wrong with straight 6 v 6 kill or be killed? Does that take away from the actual concept of who is the better team? What about the people unfamiliar with or for that matter, never even played anything other than Team Deathmatch or FFA?
To me it's important, yes. To me game nights = fun and tournament = serious competition and when it comes to competition it's important to me that it's as pure as possible. (I've been accused of being a bit single-minded before though)

I do understand what you're saying though, and your point about not everyone having playing as much is well made. I'll leave it up to you to decide on rules that are suitable for everyone, and hope that maybe you'll take some of my points into consideration. ;)

[Razor]

All this arguing is getting no where, Like flea said, if it's in the game, it's in the game, Someone just come up with a steady set of rules/regulations and lets just go by that.

[v0lum3]

Well since it seems that I'm ineligible to participate in the tournament process because I may compete in the tournament process, then I withdraw my entry.

As it stands now the feedback I have seen indicates that the tournament is scheduled to simply be the standard team deathmatch playlist in private matches, and I don't see the reward of manipulating 12 people's schedules just to play something I already have in the matchmaking playlists, so sacrificing playing something else I can play at any day in an attempt to help make a fun experience for other members of the community seems like a fair trade to me, especially with my current ISP failings.

So again I would like to offer my services as someone with quite a lot of experience in real life and onlilne tournaments from several small and large organizations in many different games, from both sides of the tournament (competing and regulating), as well as someone with quite a bit of COD 4 experience.

I don't think that bickering is ever going to help solve anything for anyone.

And I would much rather help put on a fun tournament for the X3H community than to participate in a tournament, especially with my current work/ISP problems.

[Flea]

I've had it with this eat shit and shut up attitude some (leading!) members of this site have. If I hear this one more time you can bet I will never attempt to contribute anything to any site activity ever again ok? The only reason I'm in this discussion is because I'd like this tourney to be the best it can be.

Oh, and me and volume both have several posts on charlieoscardelta.com adressing our issues with the game, so your point is moot.

The eat shit and shut up attitude you seem to think some leading members of the site have i think is wrong.
I would like you to pm me or another staff member about this though, with any concerns and examples you have so we can look at it and see if we can fix it.

if your on about me though,i cant see why as i try to be as helpful as i can to all members.
if it is me then please let legion,code,rocket or clipse know.



All im trying to say is lets just play the game,my point isnt moot as we have played together quite a few times, and ive not heard you complain about getting killed by martyrdom once.

All were doing is trying to get a bunch of people to play for fun,thats why i dont see the point in all this arguing about something thats included in the game.

Some people havent gone prestige for a week just for this tournament,to tell them now that they cant use this perk or that perk will really annoy them,as they could have gone prestige instead of hanging on for a week to use their perks.

[codedigital]

Hopefully I'll only need to interject once.

To me, these kind of arguments bring the site down. Why? Rarely will 50 people agree on what should or shouldn't happen.

V0lum3...the idea isn't to manipulate your schedule to simply play a game you can play any other time. The idea is to be able to play with a solid chunk of Console Heroes members and have fun while doing it.

I don't see how any body's petty arguments about which specific weapon's/perks/settings should be off or on. I can tell you now that no one will agree. Everyone has their own view on what's cheap or crap in a game.

If we remove martyrdom...some people may get pissed that Last Stand is still there. If we remove this gun, people will get pissed that this gun is still in there...just maybe not as vocal about it.

This really hasn't been a debate. Each side has argued their points enough. This isn't a professional tournament site, we do these things for fun. When we have a larger user base then it may be worthwhile to get cash/merch prizes and form committees to iron out more professional rules...but right now we just want to have fun with the Heroes. Why do we continuously try to make these a trying experience instead of a fun experience?

It's too early to preach...so let me know if this doesn't make much sense.

[v0lum3]

V0lum3...the idea isn't to manipulate your schedule to simply play a game you can play any other time. The idea is to be able to play with a solid chunk of Console Heroes members and have fun while doing it.


I do have issues with getting my schedule to work out with a lot of people, this ruined my Halo 3 tournament experience just trying to coordinate 8 people... coordinating 12 is even more difficult, especially since I myself may be available but that my internet may flake out at any moment, which is beyond my control.

So I am still withdrawing my entry since it seems inevitable that a wrinkle will come around and the one or two days a week that would be possible for me to play will be unavailable for one of the 12 other members and I'll end up screwing my team, yet again :( I still wish the layout of the tourney had been discussed further, 12 people really is a lot to coordinate for a game... but evidently the staff had discussed everything behind the scenes.

I also completely understand the goal to keep the tourney's accessible to newcomers and all gamers, I can appreciate that goal and respect it. But I also think that just saying no rules is a bad idea. A small change, even something as simple as enabling friendly fire, doesn't ruin people's experience, there are different gametypes and settings in the matchmaking hoppers and they in no way ruin people's experiences. I'm also fairly confident that the main reason FF was disabled in the beginning MM levels is just to help prevent team killers... the goal of FF is to protect gamers from their teammates... what other big FPS title uses this?

I know that there are some fairly competitive minded gamers on the site (other than just myself) and that a little effort into gametype/map choices and a few settings tweaks could easily help satisfy both sides of the coin, the competitive gamers and the not so competitive ones.

I only started this thread in order to have a productive discussion about the settings because discussions were encouraged in the sign up thread... if the community members were not going to have any input in the settings and gametypes, and the discussion was going to be frowned upon by the staff, why were we encouraged to discuss it?

I still think that friendly fire is a natural balancer to the game which punishes people for thoughtless actions, not something which limits the player from anything they've earned in the last several weeks. I completely agree that enabling all perks and regular settings is a good idea for ease of use and to let people show off some of the weapons they've worked hard to use... but friendly fire doesn't inhibit the players from using anything, it only punishes them for shooting their teammates...

But whether these settings are final or not, I would still like to offer my services, if they can be used, in helping do anything for the tournament that needs done.

I still haven't had my question answered about what gametypes the tournament will be using.

[codedigital]

I know that there are some fairly competitive minded gamers on the site (other than just myself) and that a little effort into gametype/map choices and a few settings tweaks could easily help satisfy both sides of the coin, the competitive gamers and the not so competitive ones.

I only started this thread in order to have a productive discussion about the settings because discussions were encouraged in the sign up thread... if the community members were not going to have any input in the settings and gametypes, and the discussion was going to be frowned upon by the staff, why were we encouraged to discuss it?

I still think that friendly fire is a natural balancer to the game which punishes people for thoughtless actions, not something which limits the player from anything they've earned in the last several weeks. I completely agree that enabling all perks and regular settings is a good idea for ease of use and to let people show off some of the weapons they've worked hard to use... but friendly fire doesn't inhibit the players from using anything, it only punishes them for shooting their teammates...

But the problem with that is that the other half of the competitive gamers disagree with you about what makes the game competitive.

As I said...no one here is going to agree to everything.

And yes, this thread is encouraged and I love the debate. The problem with it though is that we have to camps fighting and not giving ground. So the points we're debating...aren't even truly being debated.

I do, however, agree on the team size. 12 people to coordinate is insane.

[v0lum3]

But the problem with that is that the other half of the competitive gamers disagree with you about what makes the game competitive.

As I said...no one here is going to agree to everything.

And yes, this thread is encouraged and I love the debate. The problem with it though is that we have to camps fighting and not giving ground. So the points we're debating...aren't even truly being debated.

I do, however, agree on the team size. 12 people to coordinate is insane.

I have given plenty of ground I believe... if you remember I had originally proposed no perks and no airsupport...

I've given up almost all of those arguments in light of the fact that many people feel that perks and airsupport are a necessity for COD4, I can readily agree with that... but I haven't given ground on friendly fire because I haven't seen a valid argument... or really a thought out argument pertaining to it... all I've seen is a post that says that's the way it is so that's the way it'll be.

I've also only seen one post that says the tourney should be TS only... the rest have pretty much agreed that a variety is a good way to go... but I still don't know what's going on with the gametypes.

[codedigital]

I have given plenty of ground I believe... if you remember I had originally proposed no perks and no airsupport...

I've given up almost all of those arguments in light of the fact that many people feel that perks and airsupport are a necessity for COD4, I can readily agree with that... but I haven't given ground on friendly fire because I haven't seen a valid argument... or really a thought out argument pertaining to it... all I've seen is a post that says that's the way it is so that's the way it'll be.

I've also only seen one post that says the tourney should be TS only... the rest have pretty much agreed that a variety is a good way to go... but I still don't know what's going on with the gametypes.

Let's put the friendly fire to a vote.

[Rocket]

Originally, I had wanted less team members. 6, albeit a good number for a team, is an insane amount of people to coordinate. On this I agree with you Volume. Which, I'm going to think over again, with an outside party, Clipse, on whether or not the number will be lowered.

Friendly Fire....will it honestly make a difference? What will it actually do for the tournament? It could yes, improve communication, but what about all the players in the tournament who are going to be on a team of people that they have never played before? That only get to practice as a team for a little bit? Or, here is a better one, what about the people who get pissed at their teammate(s) for what they perceive as kill stealing? Friendly Fire is off, and they commence to team killing. As it does happen, rather frequently in other games.

Gametype....What about the people who haven't played COD as much as everyone? The ones who are on here, like me, to just have some fun? Or the ones with maybe 1 or 2 posts, that are in it? We have to look at the whole picture. I know that for me personally, I've played nothing more than Deathmatch and a few games of HQ. And I can assure you that there are others in the tournament who are in the same boat.

[angry]

Originally, I had wanted less team members. 6, albeit a good number for a team, is an insane amount of people to coordinate. On this I agree with you Volume. Which, I'm going to think over again, with an outside party, Clipse, on whether or not the number will be lowered.

Friendly Fire....will it honestly make a difference? What will it actually do for the tournament? It could yes, improve communication, but what about all the players in the tournament who are going to be on a team of people that they have never played before? That only get to practice as a team for a little bit? Or, here is a better one, what about the people who get pissed at their teammate(s) for what they perceive as kill stealing? Friendly Fire is off, and they commence to team killing. As it does happen, rather frequently in other games.

Gametype....What about the people who haven't played COD as much as everyone? The ones who are on here, like me, to just have some fun? Or the ones with maybe 1 or 2 posts, that are in it? We have to look at the whole picture. I know that for me personally, I've played nothing more than Deathmatch and a few games of HQ. And I can assure you that there are others in the tournament who are in the same boat.

Same here m8 i have only played online a little bit. so i am going to start playing the game hard ready for the tourney.

[Brighton X]

Originally, I had wanted less team members. 6, albeit a good number for a team, is an insane amount of people to coordinate. On this I agree with you Volume. Which, I'm going to think over again, with an outside party, Clipse, on whether or not the number will be lowered.

Friendly Fire....will it honestly make a difference? What will it actually do for the tournament? It could yes, improve communication, but what about all the players in the tournament who are going to be on a team of people that they have never played before? That only get to practice as a team for a little bit? Or, here is a better one, what about the people who get pissed at their teammate(s) for what they perceive as kill stealing? Friendly Fire is off, and they commence to team killing. As it does happen, rather frequently in other games.

Gametype....What about the people who haven't played COD as much as everyone? The ones who are on here, like me, to just have some fun? Or the ones with maybe 1 or 2 posts, that are in it? We have to look at the whole picture. I know that for me personally, I've played nothing more than Deathmatch and a few games of HQ. And I can assure you that there are others in the tournament who are in the same boat.

I believe what you say, except for the end of the second paragraph. Yes, in regular online people will Team Kill if their kill is stolen, but probably not in a tournament. IMO, if you're going for the win in a tournament, you're not gonna go on a TKing Spree just because you got your kill stolen. And since most players in this tournament are the more well known members of the site, they wouldn't want to ruin their reputation around here because something happened in a game.

[Khaos x3h]

I think it should be team hc. Makes everything alot more challenging and more competitive. I agree with NO martydom, way to cheap, especially with FF on(?) and on team hc.

[Azeron]

I think it should be team hc. Makes everything alot more challenging and more competitive. I agree with NO martydom, way to cheap, especially with FF on(?) and on team hc.
You mean G3's only mode? Oh, wait... :rolleyes: :p

[Khaos x3h]

Nope I haven't unlocked it yet lol.

[Commander Caulk]

OK, I realize this is kinda sketchy, but my team got absolutely F*CKED by this for the Halo 3 tournament: games must be played on Sunday. I think this is absolutely retarded. It should be Week 1 starting Sunday ending Saturday and the game must be played in between that time. The odds of everybody being able to make it on Sunday at the SAME TIME are very unlikely. If you give a week to everybody, they can plan out their schedule and know what is going on. In the Halo 3 tournament, my team had to have 2 subs who were terrible compared to the actual players on my team. Can we please do this?

[Razor]

Also when is the actual official set of rules gonna be coming out. Is everything going to be allowed?

[Commander Caulk]

Seriously, can we do the one week thing? It benefits everyone.

[Rocket]

Yes Commander, you will have 7 days, from Friday to Friday, starting on 1 Feb.

All the rules will be posted once the last remaining captains contact me.

So far - Commander Caulk is the only one who needed to drop a team member, that has.

[Commander Caulk]

Just a question: Why is Shipment being left off now with 5 v 5? Online, that's basically what the games are like. 5 v 5ish on Shipment, which if I recall correctly, is extremely fun.

[v0lum3]

Just a question: Why is Shipment being left off now with 5 v 5? Online, that's basically what the games are like. 5 v 5ish on Shipment, which if I recall correctly, is extremely fun.

Fun I'll give you... balanced in any way so that the better team comes out on top, I won't ;)

[Razor]

Because it may be fun by shipment takes absolutly no skill. Once you get a airstrike you automatically on a 10 kill streak, then you get a helicopter and you get another 7 kills before they kill you helicopter or your helicopter goes away.

Also volume i dont get why you think thats so funny. I also have some bad grammer, what i meant to say was get some lyrics that make some damn sence not making. lol:D

[v0lum3]

Because it may be fun by shipment takes absolutly no skill. Once you get a airstrike you automatically on a 10 kill streak, then you get a helicopter and you get another 7 kills before they kill you helicopter or your helicopter goes away.

Also volume i dont get why you think thats so funny. I also have some bad grammer, what i meant to say was get some lyrics that make some damn sence not making. lol:D

lol, True post (a bit more in-depth than I had time to at the point in time)

And don't take my sig personally, I just had a good laugh at it :) And just like almost all my quotes, it'll be gone within a few days when I see something else that makes me laugh... I know you didn't mean for it to come off as funny as it did, but it really did have me rolling at work, and I needed it :D

But if you want me to take it down, I've got no problem taking it down, just send me a PM and let me know :)

[Razor]

No man i am not taking anything personally trust me. I just dont see how its soo funny you know what i mean. And yeah sometimes i get those funny quotes people make that they dont mean to make funny but it is.:)

[v0lum3]

No man i am not taking anything personally trust me. I just dont see how its soo funny you know what i mean. And yeah sometimes i get those funny quotes people make that they dont mean to make funny but it is.:)

Well, I'm a court reporter... so I have a very odd sense of humor when it comes to grammar... it's kind of sad actually :(

But if you don't mind it, then I'll leave it there till something else pops up :D It really did cheer me up a lot today for some reason :D

[Commander Caulk]

Because it may be fun by shipment takes absolutly no skill. Once you get a airstrike you automatically on a 10 kill streak, then you get a helicopter and you get another 7 kills before they kill you helicopter or your helicopter goes away.

Also volume i dont get why you think thats so funny. I also have some bad grammer, what i meant to say was get some lyrics that make some damn sence not making. lol:D

Yeah, uh huh, and I guess it doesn't take skill to get 5 kills in a row? Of course the better team will win the match. Give me one good reason why they wouldn't. To get an airstrike/helicopter, you must earn them. It's no different from any other level. The better team will always come out on top...

[Azeron]

Yeah, uh huh, and I guess it doesn't take skill to get 5 kills in a row? Of course the better team will win the match. Give me one good reason why they wouldn't. To get an airstrike/helicopter, you must earn them. It's no different from any other level. The better team will always come out on top...
Lol, here's a secret: camp car side. If you know where to stand you can shoot right into some of the other team's spawns while keeping partial cover yourself.

Shipment was designed as a 1v1, 2v2 map, the fact that it's even included in some of the playists (except for cage match) is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: and no, kill streaks don't really take skill, just camp.

[v0lum3]

Lol, here's a secret: camp car side. If you know where to stand you can shoot right into some of the other team's spawns while keeping partial cover yourself.

Shipment was designed as a 1v1, 2v2 map, the fact that it's even included in some of the playists (except for cage match) is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: and no, kill streaks don't really take skill, just camp.

lol, but pretty much all TD can be won in COD by camping ;)

But I think the part you're missing about Shipment is that there is NO terrain to use... there can be no outmaneuvering and out-thinking of your opponent... now I'm sure you can break this down and say, well of course you can, but there's nowhere near the depth that most of the other levels have with multiple directions and tactics which can be used... you pretty much just have to come at them from one of three ways... two if they're in one of the corners... and where actual shooting skill comes into effect in most of the other levels, there is no way to outshoot anyone on shipment other than to twitch shoot... the map plays like Halo half the time, except without the demanding targeting system... so really there is no guarantee that anyone will win based on their skill.

[Rocket]

Shipment is OUT, bottom line. There really isn't anything anyone will say to make me change that one. The map is small. There is no room to move as a unit, to make tactical decisions, or to even make the match fun. You spawn right on top of eachother. So, NO SHIPMENT.

[Razor]

Agreed with rocket 100%

[Khaos x3h]

agreed with rocket eventhough I like the map because it's an easy win for me but it would make that game hella boring.

[Commander Caulk]

I wasn't arguing for Shipment. Just trying to understand why it wasn't being included.:D